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Pride Services Group (Read 37473 times)
Reply #23 - 07. Jun 2010 at 10:01
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Well stated Drew I enjoy the debate you are right it does take a brave man to get on a forum use his real and bare his soul.It is a bit one sided when only you affairs are open to scrutiny.I like many others enjoy the feedback that you provide and more people in the industry should use this forum it could become a good tool for positive change.If what you have stated is true I wish I could have worked for a company like yours back in the day instead of some of the shonks I have walked out on.At the end of the day it is the worker like the customer that vote with their feet.No one holds a gun to your head and forces you to go to work everyday as a employee you can always walk.Where as a employer you risk your finances and family as well as the well being of their families and them.The risk is all in the employers court and ethical profit is not a dirty word we live in a capitalist economy not a socialist one and if people like Drew did not take risks a lot more of us would be working for companies like ISS and just a quick side note some cleaners might be making more than you but most of us are paid more than a retail trade qualified butcher @ 19.00 an hour.I hope the open debate continues but it is always good to look at things from a few pespectives.Drew good on you it is  a hard but but higher road you have selected.Lastly I do not know or have dealings with Pride Security or Argustuft and would love to use my real name on the forum but due to potential breech of Gov.confidentiality agreements I cant. Undecided
 
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Reply #22 - 07. Jun 2010 at 05:51
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Hi Argustuft

I would be like to know where the LHMU was at the time. Most likely on an oversea or interstate junkets at the members expense. The Secretary spends more time overseas or interstate than in Queensland.

I know of a employer who tried to put their employees on to a new agreement equal to the award and the LHMU stuff that up.

What is your position on the union trying knock over these agreements or are they only interested in looking after cleaners, teacher aides and the Ambos. For God sake the cleaners get more pay than we do.

We need to get organised.


 
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Reply #21 - 07. Jun 2010 at 01:00

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Argustuft

The implementation process was followed within the guidelines of the day. The next agreement will also be guided by the laws and rules of the day.

As from previous posts i have expressed that we have always maintained a basis that we were seeking a win win association for all parties and some level of certainty.

There may be devil in the detail (you have spent quite a bit of time on this) but it it is how the interpretation is implemented.

Pride Services Group pays penalty rates (afternoon, night (if appliciable) Saturday, Sunday and Public Holidays, Annual Leave, Sick Leave, accrues Long Service Leave, first aid allowance (and pays for renewal to guards), workcover premiums are up to date, Superannuation to the fund of their choice and always on time.

These things are largely absent from the industry.

On one 24hr site i pay my staff at Level 4 where the site is Level 3 as they are high quality people who are very loyal so i try to look after them so i dont lose them.

I am sorry that our agreement does not meet your high standards.
Attacking my intellect seems to be an easy option to you. I am just a guy having a go and trying to support my family and the people who work for me. Security Management is summed up by "Tired" when he points out how a friend of his has a seven figure sum to invest but Security is not the option, he may have the intellect that i lack.

Pride was started with $10,000 and a hell of a lot of perspiration. 100+ hour weeks have been part and parcel of my life for the past three years. I am in a uniform more than sleepwear. In that three years we have gone from one site doing 6hr days to now having nine patrol vehicles on the road each night and guards throughout Brisbane and we turnover in excess of 2 million dollars. I now have an operations assistant and an administration manager. I am proud of my achievements and so are my family. They are the ones that see what i do day in and day out.

I have taken a chance and am having a go. I am not a millionaire and dont drive a flash car. I am trying to operate with some level of principle and ethics in an industry where these things are largely absent.

I am an idealist. I hate the fact that we have to have an agreement in place at all. I am one of few that wish that the award was not seen as a ceiling for wages but as the lowest you can be paid.

I am sure that you will find something more to say about me, if you walked a mile in my shoes, you may even take a softer approach towards me. Remember i don't have to come on this forum. I have put myself out there and am willing to face scrunity.

Some of my counterparts in the industry will be scared of from coming onto this forum by seeing that their company can be disected and they can be personally attacked even if they attempt to operate a genuine company.

I am only on here to try to evoke some positive thoughts in relation to the industry.
« Last Edit: 07. Jun 2010 at 01:09 by Drew »  
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Reply #20 - 06. Jun 2010 at 11:29
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I dont know who is right or wrong on this one but debate like this that does not drop in to a process of name calling and debated with level heads and mutual respect is good for evryone.It allows all to read and come to their own logical conclusions,wich can only be for the industry as a whole .And lets be honest if there is a industry pool that needs a bit of chlorine it is the security industry.Time for a cleansing process and to get rid of all the crap associated with the industry.I just wish I was in a position of either knowledge or power to facilitate that change.But I think all we can keep doing is lobbying government and keep exposing the sham contractors and crooks that seem to be atracted to what could be a very rewarding industry for both the people in it and there customers.But like a friend of mine said recently(He had a 7 figure sum to invest in a buisness)The only way to make a small fortune in the security industry and be legitimate is to start with a big one.This is sad as he would be a good operator but who could blame him for investing somewhere else. Sad
 
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Reply #19 - 06. Jun 2010 at 09:57

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Drew
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The loaded rate is the aggregated rate only used for 24hr sites with a four on four off roster. It is not used to short pay guards for duties that are performed on weekends. All security officers are paid time and one half for Saturdays, Double time for sundays and Double time and a half for public holidays.

If this was your intent then why is it not stated in the Pride Security agreement. The whole agreement when it comes to pay and penalties is ambiguous. It demonstrates the intellect level on all that signed off on the agreement. A few other questions-
1. How many days did you give employees to consider the agreement before voting on it?
2. Was the voting process transparent and how was the vote validated by the employees?
3. Did the employees vote in the Employee Representative?
4. Who was the Employee's Bargaining Agent? Don't tell me it was Eather.
Don't brag that the agreement was approved by Workplace Australia. In that period one public servant with little knowledge of the Workplace Relations Act had the power to approve agreements. Show me one agreement that did not get approved. These days an agreement must have the basis of pay and conditions of the new award and what was bargained over must be stated. It is approved by a commissioner who has full legal knowledge of the Fair Work Act. The crappy agreements during Workchoces are a thing of the past.
I noticed that the pay commission handed down a pay increase of about 4.8% last week.
My advice to you Drew is to accept the new award when your agreement expires. I am afraid your company will go the same way as some of my previous employers who I considered were fair - out of existance.
The corrupt state of the security industry in Qld is about to be exposed. ISS is about to make headlines for all the wrong reasons.
If you cannot beat them, join them and learn to speak Hindi! Cheesy
 
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Reply #18 - 01. Jun 2010 at 21:11

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Argustuft,

I thank you for your frank assessment of our Certified agreement. I will endeavour to answer all of your questions in relation to my document. The loaded rate is the aggregated rate only used for 24hr sites with a four on four off roster. It is not used to short pay guards for duties that are performed on weekends. All security officers are paid time and one half for Saturdays, Double time for sundays and Double time and a half for public holidays. The increase per year is 3% and this was the major contributing factor for the agreement, to give a certain amount so that we could tender with the future in mind.

From what i have heard (i may be wrong) the increase that may be coming in under the new award is estimated at 2.5% thus giving my employees an additional advantage, this was the chance i had to make in order to quote on multiple year contracts.

I will get to you a full analysis of the other queries that you have made.

Still the offer is out there Argustuft for that cuppa...I may even wish to have your assistance in nutting out my next agreement and saving the consultancy fees to get a good/fair agreement in place.

Drew
 
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Reply #17 - 01. Jun 2010 at 13:39

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Drew
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Please feel free to go through my certified agreement and tell me the issues where i have stripped workers rights on this forum as the ones that you have said about the other companies you will find are not part of our agreement.

First of all for all those reading this, open this webpage which is the Pride Security Collective Agreement 2008 http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN084860726.pdf. I think it should open in another page and come back to this post.
1. Drew your agreement is confusing, can you define the clause 4.7.3. "Permanant and Part time employees (other than employees on ordinary rate)" - who are these employees and why are you paying them overtime if they work more than 12 hrs in a day (or should that read "shift")? I was under the impression that you got overtime if you worked more than 8 hrs.
2. Clause 4.7.4 says it all. What did you give your employees in return for forgoing the award overtime and shift allowances?
3. Clause 1.4.3. is the definition of Loaded Rate. Who gets this loaded rate? When is it paid? Is it the 4 day on and 4 day off roster rate or do you get paid that for working Saturday or Sunday?
4. Clause 4.8.4 deals with the Casual rate of pay. What does a casual get paid on Saturday and Sunday? Should the words "permanent rate of pay" mean "Loaded Rate".
5. Clause 4.11 Does an prospective employee have to sign a voluntary extra hours form to get the job? A way of getting rid of overtime claims? Clause 4.11.3 is the crunch clause. How would you live with yourself Drew after one of your employees kills themselves driving to or from work without sufficient rest or sleep between shifts. The only redeeming feature is that you are prepared to pay casual rates instead of normal rates which is in other agreements.
6. Section 5.2 (a) is confusing. Technically you can pay your casuals at the normal rate without the casual loading, although the casual loading is stated elsewhere in the agreement. This clause is an example of Eather's incompetence. When it says "These rates are calculated to include penalties ...." What does this mean, which rates, the ordinary rate?
7. Where is Sections 5.2 (c) and 5.2. (d) ?
8. In 5.2. (e) who are ordinary rate employees and why do they get a double up of shift penalties when 5.2. (a) says they are included?
9. The increases in the agreement payscale over the years is acceptable at about 2.8%. The Fair Pay commission handed down a 3.8% increase in 2008 and nothing in 2009 so your ordinary rate if comparative to the workplace authority pay scale is above that for 2009. But that will even up at the end of this month and you may have a pay advantage over the award.
10. Your agreement for most part is a copy of the OCS greenfield agreement except for clauses on overtime, penalties and pay which Eather tinkered around with. The OCS/LHMU agreement had legal oversight, yours did not otherwise what I have said would have been picked up by a legal expert.
 
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Reply #16 - 01. Jun 2010 at 02:19

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argustuft wrote on 30. May 2010 at 12:44:
So Drew enough of your vieled threats and intimidations


You are so totally wrong with your accusations. I am not trying to intimidate anyone.

Maybe i should put it this way. If you have something that you believe is true, then wouldn't it give you even more credability and show the signs of true leadership to come out from the wall of secrecy and show the courage of your convictions.

I created this post due to the fact that something was written about my company that was UNTRUE. As i have said prior in this post, i welcome things said about my company both bad and good because it is a way in which Pride Services Group can improve into the future.

Pride Services Group endeavours to look after its people. We are not one of the companies going around paying $20 per hour on ABN's (sham contracting)

As stated before we got our agreement in order to be certain of increases that we would face into the future as we had contracts that were going to be over three years and they wanted us to give our increases up front.

I would suggest that you cut and paste or rewrite your information that you have put into this forum under the area that you have placed your original expose on Peter Eather. Please feel free to go through my certified agreement and tell me the issues where i have stripped workers rights on this forum as the ones that you have said about the other companies you will find are not part of our agreement.

We have one more year of our agreement to go. If we have been unfair to our workers then we will seek to change this in the next round of bargaining. I look forward to your analysis of our agreement, as it will draw attention to me where we have fallen down and areas to improve.

Argustuft, you are obviously someone who has not worked for me before. You sound like you have alot of experience in the industry of which some has been bad.

The industry needs people like you to stand up, you may not believe me but i welcome it. It is not all about which side of the fence you are standing on. I hate the us and them approach.

I do not condone what some other companies do in relation to renumeration and i hope that they face the wrath of all of the necessary departments. It would open up doors for established companies that are looking after their employees to get further contracts.

If ever you would like to catch up for a coffee argustuft and to talk about ways in which the industry can be improved please feel free to email me.

I love an intelligent debate, and would love to chew the fat with you, you may find that the fence you see is not that high.

Drew
 
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Reply #15 - 30. May 2010 at 22:55

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WOW
 

Ah! Working in Security where finding the real thief could be your employer. Now is the time to check your super account.
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Reply #14 - 30. May 2010 at 13:51

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Ranann http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN073526198.pdf Pride Security http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN084860726.pdf HTP Security http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN061173354.pdf.
If you look close at the OCS agreement you will find it is a template for all the other agreements but with adjustments which take away working conditions. Have a look at these agreements to see if the agreement a 42 hr week where the normal week under the Award is 38 hrs. It means the worker does not have to pay overtime for 4 hrs of the week where the award said he had to. Have a look at the penalty rates if any. Most times they are below what was in the award and the voluntary extra shifts clause. This is where an employee voluntarily agrees to work overtime at the normal rate. Also the flat pay rate where the rate is marginally above the day shift rate but falls very short of what you would earn with shift and weekend penalties. In a lot of cases the allowances have been scrubbed. Casual loading rates in some cases is below the award rate.
In a lot of cases Eather chopped and changed the original OCS agreement to suit the employer with little regard to consequences and without a legal understanding of what the agreement contained. In the Ranann agreement if the employer wanted to have permanent guards do overtime he had to pay them penalties on a 4 on 4 off flate rate where penalties were incorporated. In fact he was paying penalties on penalties. Eather failed to stipulate it should have been the normal rate plus penalties. Spike talks about it in his post where the employer woke up and started to employ casuals and so the permanent workers lost out on overtime.
I can vouch for two instances where the conditions of the bargaining process were not carried out correctly and verge on fraud and deception because the employer would have to sign a declaration to the Workplace Authority that the process was fair and proper. I don't think the employer would have signed this declaration knowing it was false unless Eather said he could get away with it.
If Eather thinks I have defamed him then let him persue it in court. I would love to get him in court under oath denying what I have said. Who knows it could lead to him being charged under the old Workplace Relations Act and that could carry jail time.
My original post on Eather was a caution to those involved with him. I got sick of the employers trying to scrub him clean and we now all know on which side of the fence he sits.
 
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Reply #13 - 30. May 2010 at 12:44

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Defamation of character is the communication of false information stated as a fact which brings harm to an individual or an entity. For it to be defamation, the statement must be delivered in speech or in writing to at least one person other than the victim. Libel is the defamation of an individual's or an entity's character which is published in a written medium. There are a number of possible defenses against libel and slander, but the only one which is an absolute defense is truth. If the statement is true, it cannot be considered libel or slander.

Libel is Civil law and not Criminal law. Libel actions are settled by monetary compensation and do not ential jail time so a right to hold a security licence is not at risk. So Drew enough of your vieled threats and intimidations. IP addresses are changed each time you switch your modem on and off.

When Peter Eather was the LHMU representative the union delegates were worried about his liasions with management and complained to the LHMU. It is for this reason he left the LHMU. Nothing criminal in that except a breach of faith by unionists in him and the union. During his time with the union Eather was involved with a Greenfields Agreement between OCS security and the LHMU http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAUN06558155.pdf. This is a fair agreement and was legally correct.
When Eather left the union it was the beginning of the Workchoice legislation where workers rights were thrown to the wind. He saw his chance and acted as the EMPLOYERS REPRESENTATIVE in a number of collective agreements.
These were Infront http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN073161405.pdf http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAUN072869438.pdf Qld Hospitality and Security Training http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN084542655.pdf Qld Hotel Security Solutions http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN084542811.pdf Protection Plus http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN073746938.pdf Prosek Security http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN085007028.pdf Pro System Crowd Management http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAUN084634565.pdf Maximum Security Services http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN061173367.pdf CSO Australia http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN084413136.pdf Allstate Protections Services http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN061306474.pdf A&N Security http://ca.workplaceauthority.gov.au/docs/CAs/CAEN084189107.pdf
 
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Reply #12 - 28. May 2010 at 08:52

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Drew I agree 100% with that view of Peter; my experiences with him over the years have been identical; especially your comment about the balance of fairness between employees and employers.

Many of my colleagues did not get along with him because of his very direct personality. I don't know the circumstances of him leaving the union however I firmly believe that Peter's intentions have always been in the best interests of the industry and its workers.
 

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Reply #11 - 28. May 2010 at 01:30

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I am unaware of the allegations made against Peter Eather. If there was proof of illegal activity i have no doubt that the union would have got the Police involved.

There is always rumors whenever anyone leaves or is dismissed from a position.

I was not aware at the time of doing the agreement up that there had been any issues in relation to Peter Eather.

As far as I know he has even run for council elections as a labour candidate since finishing up with the union. Surely they would not have let him do that with such allegations made against him if they thought that it be true.

When he was in the union i had a couple of battles in relation to staff that i dismissed through gross misconduct and i never got an easy ride by Peter.

I felt that whilst Peter was involved in the union there was a balance of being fair to both employees and employers. Of course he had the interests of the members in mind but he transended boundries that some union officials do not try to do. When there was an issue between an employee and an employer Peter always asked the employee to go to their employer first and to try to sort it out. This i feel is fair as not all employers were trying to cut corners. If the employer and employee could not come to an agreement or if the employer did not rectify the problem then he would investigate.

He was involved in bringing down some of the worst employers in the industry. This meant that there was a more even playing field for companies to quote on work.

Peter now assists to train up youths of underprivilaged families to get into the industry. I go to some of his courses and speak to his classes about what (as an employer) I look for in applicants for positions within the industry.

I would prefer not to get involved in slander against anyone one this website. This is a forum that whilst people may think that they can say anything, it is not real hard to work out who they are. The IP is logged which in my limited knowledge of computers means that the things written can be traced to the computer that they were written at. People need to be very careful with slander as they could find themselves in court and that may find them losing their right to hold a security licence.

It is very easy to lose your integrity in the industry, and almost impossible to gain it back. I don't know the truth about everything and sometimes find myself thinking that companies are breaking the rules and laws but unless i have proof of an action then i will keep it to myself.

If the industry is cleaned up then the cream will rise to the surface.

I will just keep my doorstep clean, that's all i can do.

Drew
 
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Reply #10 - 27. May 2010 at 11:58
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Quote:
The whole reason why we even put together an agreement was so we could tender on projects that were longer than a year. The agreement was drawn up by Peter Eather who used to run the Security Division of the Union and voted on by my employees.


Geez Drew you lost all cred in hiring Peter Eather for your collective agreement. His name is crap amongst unionists. See what argustuft has to say under the Qld LHMU section.
 
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Reply #9 - 25. May 2010 at 16:09
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You are dead right Drew it should be simple no ABN or ACN ,no insurance both Public liability and personal indemnity ,no security provider number No trade.And if your found in breach of the conditions 1 warning then jail time for company directors that would certainly go a long way to fixing many problems.
 
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