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P license limitations (Read 15126 times)
Reply #17 - 14. Jun 2011 at 15:25

ausguard   Offline
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Thanks Arthur but I went a different way. I now hold a full unrestricted license.
 
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Reply #16 - 31. May 2011 at 15:30

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This is too late to help you Ausguard but it may be of assistance to any other P platers out there. The NSW Security Industry Regulations details requirements for 'direct supervision'.
In terms of "regular progress checks" once a day is regular if you're taking metamucil. I suppose once a week or once a month could be regular, too?

[quote]19 Direct supervision: section 29A
For the purposes of section 29A of the Act, the holder of a provisional licence ( "the provisional licensee") is under the direct supervision of a person ( "the competent person") who holds a class 1 licence that authorises the carrying on of the security activity to which the provisional licence relates if:

(a) the provisional licensee receives detailed written instructions (which may, for example, be in the form of standard operating procedures, employment policies or an employment procedure manual) from the licensee’s employer on the work to be performed, and
(b) the provisional licensee performs tasks that are part of an overall work routine that is documented, and
(c) the provisional licensee is subject to regular personal progress checks, in writing, on the work being performed by a nominated supervisor, and
(d) in the case of the holder of a class P1C licence:
(i) the competent person is on the same premises as the provisional licensee, and
(ii) the provisional licensee is as far as practicable in the line of sight of the competent person, and
(iii) the competent person is able to immediately render assistance to the provisional licensee if required, and
(iv) there is at least one competent person on the relevant premises for every 3 provisional licensees, and
(e) in the case of the holder of a class P1D licence (but only for the period of 3 months from the date the holder of such a licence commences employment with the relevant employer):
(i) the competent person is on the same premises as the provisional licensee, and
(ii) the provisional licensee is as far as practicable in the line of sight of the competent person, and
(iii) the competent person is able to immediately render assistance to the provisional licensee if required, and
(iv) there is at least the same number of competent persons as provisional licensees on the relevant premises, and
(f) in the case of the holder of a class P1F licence:
(i) the provisional licensee is as far as practicable in the line of sight of the competent person, and
(ii) the competent person is able to immediately render assistance to the provisional licensee if required, and
(iii) the competent person holds a firearms licence under the Firearms Act 1996 and the competent person’s genuine reason under that Act for possessing or using the firearm is for business or employment, and
(iv) there is at least the same number of competent persons as provisional licensees on the relevant premises.
[quote]
 
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Reply #15 - 23. Jun 2010 at 18:05

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Observer you do make a valid point, I've often thought the same thing,
as the officer pool dries up those left will become highly sort after, especially the ones that have the right training and work experience.
Maybe I am over looking the positives and focusing on the negatives. I for one hope to be proved wrong on this one.
« Last Edit: 23. Jun 2010 at 18:06 by ausguard »  
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Reply #14 - 23. Jun 2010 at 07:39

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Hi all,

While the new training regime is a true pain in the arse, has anybody thought about the positive effect for people already in the industry??

Look at it this way....  

Nobody wants to pay a fortune to do the training courses, so a vast majority of candidates look to other industries... So there are much fewer people entering the industry...  

This creates a shortage of qualified personnel....  Good operators become a very scarce commodity...  Employers have huge difficulty recruiting...

Employers are forced to start paying realistic money to keep the staff they already have, and to induce newcomers into the industry...

Employers (especially the bigger ones) will have to start paying for new employees to do training courses to fill ever increasing staff shortages...

Meanwhile, the existing operators get bigger and bigger pay packets, both due to the expanding pay rates, and the abundance of overtime available coming as a result of the natural attrition that takes place in the industry...

Guys, you are entering a golden age in the security industry, you are a scarce commodity and getting scarcer (in NSW anyway). Security operatives will no longer be "dime-a-dozen" & disposable.

Make sure your employer knows that. You are in a fantastic bargaining position...


Just my thoughts  Cheesy
 
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Reply #13 - 23. Jun 2010 at 07:34

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Spectre well said, I completely agree with you.
 
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Reply #12 - 23. Jun 2010 at 02:02

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ausguard wrote on 22. Jun 2010 at 19:42:
In mho the nsw current system has to change for it to be a viable career choice, face it if you were some one looking at security as a new career path once you found out all the SIR bs you have to go thru to obtain a liecense you would do a about face.


Exactly... instead of cleaning up the industry they're cleaning out the industry, fresh faces & "new blood" is how you make changes, people with the right attitude & aptitude  Wink

 

"Folks who think profiling has no place in the world we live and believe that all folks have good intentions are called victims of violent crimes." - David Burnell
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Reply #11 - 22. Jun 2010 at 22:27

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cant you work as mobile patrol or in gatehouse etc as long as you are in contact with ur supervisor eg you can call him directly on the phone?
 
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Reply #10 - 22. Jun 2010 at 19:42

ausguard   Offline
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WOW it seem that security training can go from over the top to rock bottom. In mho the nsw current system has to change for it to be a viable career choice, face it if you were some one looking at security as a new career path once you found out all the SIR bs you have to go thru to obtain a liecense you would do a about face.
This whole P thing for starters has to go and then work on a more realistic training program to obtaining a certII.
Rant over
 
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Reply #9 - 22. Jun 2010 at 08:39
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You guys dont know how lucky you are here in good old qld you should see our selection criteria for security licensing.1 Little to no english skills or the ninja skill of pretending to not understand english..2 A student visa 3 Super human strength to carry the additional 20-30 kg you will put on 1st year of the job. 4 The inane ability to be able to sleep in any position on any site(Preferably with your dog on your lap to keep you warm)and then deny it when caught.5 Patience to wait for a police response and to deal with the super efficient fair trading automatic phone system.6 The ability to look like you have worn the same un-ironed uniform all week.(They wont notice if you walk around with a bundy can in your hand)7 The awesome ability to be able to winge about every security company even if you have never worked for them or even know someone who works for them.(Backstabbing your workmates also comes with this ability).So guys if you dont fit at least 4-5 of these criteria either dont come to qld you wont fit in!!!! Cheesy Grin Smiley
 
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Reply #8 - 22. Jun 2010 at 07:53

ausguard   Offline
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Exactly right, this is nothing more then a cash grabing exersise.
At over $2000 to upgrade to a cert 2 liecense is a joke, when you consider other states run a cert2 course up front without the hassles.
While I'm no expert in security training and can't vouch for every guard in the nsw industry I find the current system a complete failure.
Changes must be made now to keep the currents officers in the job and to incourage new guards to join.
 
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Reply #7 - 21. Jun 2010 at 21:07

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That does seem a significantly unfair financial burden especially when you consider the award rates... sounds more like a bureaucratic cash grab  Angry
« Last Edit: 21. Jun 2010 at 21:09 by Spectre »  

"Folks who think profiling has no place in the world we live and believe that all folks have good intentions are called victims of violent crimes." - David Burnell
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Reply #6 - 21. Jun 2010 at 20:54

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Spectre wrote on 21. Jun 2010 at 17:06:
I find this concept of a "P" restricted licence intriguing any more information? Wink 



ausguard has it right, the P system is totally flawed. One of my guards who's nearing the end of her P's just did her upgrade stuff for 1AC. She's had to do the upgrade course + onsite assessments. Remember that for us people in regional areas we also have to travel to do most courses  Angry

So here's the breakdown of costs incurred over 12 months:

Initial training - $600 + $400 for fuel, accom & food for 7 days
First Aid Cert - $130
P Licence - $155
4 onsite assessments - $200 each  Shocked
2 day Cert II upgrade course - $200+

Total = $2,285

So the moment you get your P's you need to get a job earning good $$$ and work supervised while doing it, just to pay it all back  Roll Eyes
 
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Reply #5 - 21. Jun 2010 at 19:11

ausguard   Offline
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The way i see it the P license system was cooked up by experts within the SIR and NSW Police to crack down on shoddy training companies dishing out licenses to poorly trained newbie security officers. While this is always a good thing to rid the industry of bad apples, the new restrictions dampen new guards trying to break into the industry or as in my case, make life hard for a previous SO trying to get back in the job.
My main problem with the current P system is.  while on your P's you must be within line of sight of a full licensed guard, so you can forget about being a lone static guard or a mobile patrol officer, unless you are in a two man team and one is a full license holder. Other limitations are, no Provo officer can use batons or hand cuffs within the 12mnth period. Also P officers must undertake work place assessments to see if they are up to scratch for the ultimate prize, that being a full NSW security license.
The latest Security Solutions magazine has a great editorial on the current craze of over priced and long drawn out training and the bleak future of the whole Security Industry as we know it.
 
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Reply #4 - 21. Jun 2010 at 17:06

Spectre   Offline
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I find this concept of a "P" restricted licence intriguing any more information? Wink
 

"Folks who think profiling has no place in the world we live and believe that all folks have good intentions are called victims of violent crimes." - David Burnell
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Reply #3 - 16. Jun 2010 at 20:39

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PM sent
 
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